By Gene Beresin, Executive Director and Khadijah Booth Watkins, Associate Director

Posted in: Multimedia, Parenting Concerns, Podcast

Topics: conflict resolution, Culture + Society, Relationships

Let’s be honest, we’re all stressed.

We’re stressed about climate change, world crises, the upcoming election, or even just the common stressors of everyday life: economic pressures, relationship issues, burnout, you name it. So, with all stress, our conversations can easily become more uncivilized. In this episode of Shrinking it Down, Gene and Khadijah discuss the key elements of conflict resolution, strategies for civil conversations, and a special role-play scenario to help demonstrate positive conflict resolution.

Media List

• Political Polarization in the American Public (Pew Research Center)
• Conflict Resolution – 10 Tips for Families (Clay Center)
• Parents Under Pressure (U.S Surgeon General)
• Parental Stress: Practical Tips in Response to the Surgeon General (Clay Center)

Episode Transcript

SPEAKERS: Gene Beresin, MD, MA; Khadijah Booth Watkins, MD, MPH.

[INTRO MUSIC PLAYS]

Gene 00:29

Welcome back to Shrinking it Down: Mental Health Made Simple. I’m Gene Beresin.

Khadijah 00:33

And I’m Khadijah Booth Watkins.

Gene 00:35

We’re two child and adolescent psychiatrists at the Clay Center for Young Healthy Minds at the Massachusetts General Hospital.

Khadijah 00:42

We are living in a really divided world right now. Lines have been drawn in the sand, and the levels of disagreement, distrust and violence are way out of control. In fact, the overall share of Americans who express consistently conservative or consistently liberal opinions or beliefs have doubled over the past two decades, and the effect around this, or the affect due to the political polarization, has been steadily increasing as negative feelings towards the opposing party has been on the rise.

Gene 01:12

Yeah, we’re living in really difficult times and more than anything, everybody’s stressed. They’re stressed about gun violence. They’re stressed about climate change, about the crises in Ukraine and in Israel and Palestine. Many of us are also stressed about the upcoming election next month, or even just the common stresses of everyday life, schoolwork, economic pressures, you name it. So, with all the stress these days, our conversations and debates have become more uncivilized, whether we’re talking about different countries or dictators or democracies, differences in political or ideological beliefs, or even just differences in our beliefs, in our homes and our communities. It’s kind of gotten out of hand. So, when we don’t use positive conflict resolution, we end up with damage, and this could be damage to self-esteem, relationships, trust and community.

Khadijah 02:13

So, there’s no shortage of things for us to be stressed about. But how do we change this? How do we restore civility? How do we get back to civilized conversations? And I guess what I’m really asking is, how do we model positive conflict resolution for our children?

Gene 02:29

So, we at the Clay Center have come up with four key principles of conflict resolution, and I recommend to any of our listeners to kind of go on the Clay Center site and look at conflict resolution, and there are four key principles in which resolution is fostered. And when I say resolution, I don’t mean necessarily everybody agreeing, because we can agree to disagree. But. #1 is appreciation of differences. Do we understand where the differences lie. 2, acceptance, acceptance, and that means accepting that they’re different points of view. 3rd is tolerance, and that’s the use of empathy to walk in another person’s shoes and to try to understand, if you really get it, you know, if you really understand where they’re coming from. And finally, the ability to kind of love and respect each other despite disagreement. So, we don’t always have to agree on everything, but we have to basically agree to disagree in a way that is respectful, that’s respectful. So, with that in mind, let’s go. Let’s get to a scenario that almost any parent has been in. So, you get home from work and your teen rushes up to you to tell you that some kids are trying to cancel them for a post they made on Snapchat. As the two of you begin to discuss this, it quickly starts escalating as you disagree on what they should do, and given that you just got out of work, you slowly realize that you don’t have the emotional bandwidth right now to to to give this conversation the attention it deserves, and or or you feel so emotionally charged that you respond with anger. So, in this case, how can parents navigate these stressful, sometimes even heated conversations with their kids, especially when they themselves are stressed out and tired?

Khadijah 04:33

Well, you know, we, first and foremost, as parents, have to remember to, you know, manage our own anxiety. You know, this comes from us. You know, firstly, being aware of how we feel sometimes. You know, when you just get off of work, you need a moment to decompress yourself, and so that’s okay, but we have to be aware of where we are in the Surgeon General advisory parents under stress, he notes that 41% of parents say that they’re so stressed out they can’t function, and 48% of parents say that their stress is completely overwhelming. So, controlling our anxiety as parents is super important, and I know it may be easier said than done, or maybe not, but what is certain is that we have to be mindful and deliberate about it, and we need to recognize when we’re anxious or stressed out ourselves. So, a few tips for parents to think about or try as they manage their own anxiety is one, there’s a lot of information out there. So, you know, we want to be informed, but we don’t need to gather too much information to the point that it overwhelms us. It’s important for us to stay connected and talk to others for support. You know, we may appear that we wear capes, but we’re not superheroes, and so it’s important to set our priorities and recognize that we can’t do everything. Getting out of the house is also really important. This allows you to be outside in nature, get some fresh air, be in some green space. It’s also important to be honest with your kids, and it’s okay to say that you don’t know when you don’t have the answer to something. And carve out time for yourself. It’s important that you carve out this time and practice self-care so that you can kind of recharge and regroup. And another thing that could be really helpful and having these kinds of difficult conversations is active listening skills. These are skills and strategies that are super helpful when you’re having these charged and heated conversations. And some things that are some ways in which you can model active listening is to when you’re in these conversations, try not to interrupt, face them and make good eye contact, making sure that you’re giving them your undivided attention. That shows them that you’re interested, and you care about what they’re saying. Keep an open mind throughout the conversation. Ask clarifying questions to show that you hear what they’re saying to you. Try not to make some try not to make assumptions about what the other person’s ideas are and ask them to share with you your point of view so that you can make sure that the communication is clear on both sides. So that’s all well and good, but Gene What should we do once these conversations escalate, or if these conversations escalate, how can we voice our opinions or oppositions in a healthy and respectful way?

Gene 07:00

Well, I think one key thing is not to let them escalate, because once they start escalating, once emotions get out of control, I don’t think anybody thinks clearly. So, I guess, I guess what you said first, and most importantly is to keep our as parents and caregivers, to keep our own levels of anxiety down to a low roar. Because if you’re anxious, angry, upset, bent out of shape, you can’t, you can’t actually control your own emotions and your own reactions. But let’s say things are escalating. So, what, what can we try to do to kind of like, put it, put a stop on it. And I’d say, you know, ask, ask your kid. And this also, by the way, applies not just to kids, but to partners and colleagues and folks at work. I mean, we’re addressing it with teenagers in particular, but I think they’re general principles. So, if you slow things down, you could ask to try to say something again, or rephrase it like, what is it that you just said? Could you just repeat that? If you slow things down, actually lengthens the fuse and they’re rephrasing it, that that may help. Or if needed, you could say, look, let’s take let’s take a time out. Let’s take a break in the conversation and but always reconvene. So, let’s get back together and say five minutes where we’ve when we’re when we’re more calm and, contained, and then finish the discussion when the feelings are less intense. So those are things that you could do now, what you should not do first, don’t dismiss something that you disagree with. I mean, it’s just like canceling or ghosting. I mean, you don’t you want to keep the focus on their reactions, on the topics at hand, and not the person. So, make sure that you don’t not just dismiss something that your kid says, But dismiss them as a person, because that that can often get very nasty. Second, don’t walk away from the conversation, I’d say. Third, be careful to make nasty, snarky or sarcastic comments about another person. Just remember how you feel as a parent or caregiver when you say something, and you get that eye roll from your teenager.

Khadijah 09:29

I’m all too familiar with that.

Gene 09:30

it doesn’t help the conversation. It doesn’t help you feel better or feel respected. It’s kind of a nasty kind of like disparaging gesture, one that I have trouble with, that I always get a lot of grief from, from my family is interrupting. Never interrupt or try to finish their sentences. So, when you interrupt, you’re saying a couple things, a number of things you’re saying. One, I’m more important than you are. What I have to say is more interesting, accurate or relevant, or I don’t even care what you think. I don’t have time for you for your opinion. And this isn’t a conversation, it’s a contest, and I’m going to win. I think those are like interruptions are really quite dangerous.

Khadijah 10:32

I love the comment about the eye roll, because I think it emphasizes how important our non-body, our nonverbal body language, is to communicating when we’re having these heated conversations, and it could also tip the scales in the wrong direction. But I’m curious to know, how do you describe taking a break from never walking away from a conversation?

Gene 10:53

Well, I’d say, you know, first of all, all of these conversations are marathons and not sprints are going to be multiple heated conversations of one kind or another during the course of your life with your kid, and if you set ground rules early on, I mean, even as early school age children, you know, I like to use the word time out, and like they do in sports, and I don’t mean timeouts in terms of giving a kid a timeout. I mean, let’s take a timeout, and virtually, if you set up ground rules that anybody can call for a timeout, but then, like in sports, there’s a timeout, but then you resume play. And by the same token, we can all take time out, and then we can resume our conversations. And I’d say, well, let’s take a time out and come back in five minutes. And you can even set an alarm, if it’s a young kid or if it’s a teenager, you, you know, and they’ve gone up to the room and close the door. And then you knock on the door, and you say, well, it’s five minutes. Let’s, let’s, let’s keep going.

Khadijah 12:01

Okay, so, so communicating that we’re going to take a break is important, and also making sure that there is a clear understanding that we’re going to regroup, which is different from kind of storming off in the middle of a conversation.

Gene 12:11

Yeah, you don’t want to leave things you want to leave things up in the air. I mean unresolved. I mean the whole point of conflict resolution is to come to a resolution, and even if the resolution is we agree to disagree, fine. But you’ve got to come back together again and finish the conversation for that moment.

Khadijah 12:33

So, let’s do another role play. Do you have a scenario that you think would help us to illustrate these, these, these skills and strategies, and do’s and don’ts.

Gene 12:44

Well, yeah, how about this? And then we can decide who’s going to be who. So, let’s say, I mean thinking kind of politically, which is what many of us are doing now, hopefully. Let’s say you’re a teenager, you’re a junior in high school, and the school administration says over the loudspeaker today and every Friday morning, before we go home for the weekend, we’re going to begin the day with a moment of silent prayer. And you can pray in any faith you believe in, or you can if you don’t, if you don’t belong to a place of worship, whatever it is, Jewish, Christian, Muslim, whatever, just have a moment of silence, and then we’ll continue with our day. And let’s make a prayer or a moment of silence to bring about peace in the world, because the world is riddled with violence right now, both at home and abroad. And the teenager, we can decide who’s going to be the teenager and who’s going to be the parent. Basically, immediately and impulsively, texts, WTF. I thought there was separation of church and state. We’re in a public freaking school, and we’re now told that we have to pray on a Friday morning, you know? And of course, the text, well, let’s say it’s not a text. Let’s say it’s on an app like Instagram or whatever goes viral. And,

Khadijah 14:44

A public post,

Gene 14:46

A public post, a public post, right and the post goes viral, so everybody in school, including the administration, sees it, and then the teen is called to the principal’s office and is suspended for being irreverent. A kid comes home and has to face their parent, okay? And then the parent has to deal with them impulsively posting a disparaging comment, and the kid is suspended. Say, for three days.

Khadijah 15:18

I want to be the parents. I don’t want to be in the hot seat.

Gene 15:24

Okay, so you so, so I come home from the kid, and I come home from school, and it’s like, you know, nine o’clock school starts at like, 730 or and I’ve just seen the principal, and I’ve come home and walk in the door and you’re the parent. Take it.

Khadijah 15:43

What in the world were you thinking? I just got a call from the school. They sent me the post that you put up. What’s wrong with you? Like you’re a junior in high school, you’re preparing to go to college. What do you think the world sees and they’re going to think about you after making this post? Wait now you’re suspended,

Gene 16:00

Yeah? Well, you know something good, you know what? Yeah, good. I mean, look, I thought that that that there was separation of church and state. I mean, we learned that in social studies. We learned that in so called civics. But you know, I mean, school is not a place to pray. School is a place to learn. You know, I mean, and I was just stating my own opinion, which is based on, you know, the Constitution of the United States. Hello.

Khadijah 16:38

The way I understood it. It was pray or a moment of silence, you had an option, and you chose the option of making a public post disparaging your school and your school community.

Gene 16:47

Well, you know what they called, what they called a moment of silence was really having a prayer.

Khadijah 16:55

Oh, because you’re the authority on what people are thinking.

Gene 16:58

Well, I, look, I just assumed what they were thinking. Well, you Okay, so you tell me what were they thinking.

Khadijah 17:09

I can’t say what they were thinking. One way that we could find out is we could ask. We could take the approach of making an appointment to ask about these new this new tradition, or these new rules that that you’re expected to follow, you went off, halfcocked, like you just flew off the hand. Though you don’t have any information this. This is the problem with kids these days.

Gene 17:30

Well, so I’m, I’m like all the other kids in the, in the in the universe, I’m your kid and I thought you raised me to stand up for what I believed is right, and I was just stating my own opinion about what I think is appropriate in school. Now that doesn’t mean it’s it would be different if it were at home or if it were in church or if it were someplace else, but this is, this is a public school, and I just was stating my own opinion. I mean, in some ways, it’s not just separation of church and state, it’s freedom of speech. Don’t I have the right to say what I think about this, this policy.

Khadijah 18:17

So, I did not mean to give the impression that you don’t have the right to have your own thoughts and to say what it is you feel. There is a way in which we should approach these things that should be thoughtful of people around us, and it’s really important for us to do our research, you know, gather our facts before we start impulsively making statements and claims that maybe can hurt other people.

Gene 18:48

So, you think that I may have hurt other people by saying that I didn’t think it was right for them to have a moment of silence, whether it’s prayer or just some random thoughts about world peace,

Khadijah 19:11

I don’t think it was your intention, but I do think, based on my conversations with the school, that they were very disappointed that you felt that you your rights were being taken away, and that they were the ones doing it. And so, I think this requires a conversation. There’s a way that we could have gotten to a place of understanding on both sides, if we would have just taken a moment to have a conversation about it.

Gene 19:34

So, what you’re saying is, is that, and now first of all, would you come with me, if we went and talked to the principal and said, look it maybe if you framed it a little differently, like we’re really all worried about the violence that’s happening. You know, my friends and I are afraid to go shopping. We’re afraid to go to the mall. We’re afraid to go to school. School. You know, we’re afraid of World War three in the Middle East. We’re afraid of lots and lots of things, and, and, and if they only said, look, if they only said, We’re all worried and upset about the violence at home and around the world, and let’s reflect on how we can make the world a better place. I’d have no trouble with that.

Khadijah 20:34

And so, it sounds like reflect sits better with you than a moment of silence or silent prayer.

Gene 20:42

Yes, a silent prayer, especially maybe, maybe I’m hung up on the word prayer, because, um, not everybody prays. I mean, you know, I have friends who are atheists, you know, or agnostics, you know, I have to respect them as well. But I think I maybe, maybe I got hung up on the word silent prayer. And maybe, if what they really meant was just to take a moment of silence,

Khadijah 21:18

I completely get it. I see where you’re where you’re coming from, and I can see how it could have felt, or feel felt that you were being forced to do something that you didn’t agree with. And I’d be happy to come with you to the school to have this conversation with administration.

Gene 21:31

And you know, another thing that, as I’m thinking about this, that that may have, you know, kind of got, got me the wrong way, is that certain religious groups have been incredibly outspoken and taken political stances, rather than spiritual or religious stances, whether it’s about women’s rights to their own bodies, whether it’s about taking arms, whether it’s about all sorts of things. You know, it seems to me, I don’t have anything against religious beliefs until they become politicized and become sources of action and violence themselves, and maybe, maybe that’s where I was coming from. And maybe there’s, there’s too much of that, and that’s what I’m objecting to.

Khadijah 22:34

Well, I think that is really important, because what I hear you saying is that you took a moment and you thought about what you were really feeling that led you to having such an emotional response, which I think is important, and now that we have calmed down a little bit, me and you I think it’s now an appropriate time, and would be a productive, you know, exercise for us to go and talk to the school about our concerns, yeah, and maybe

Gene 22:57

they could even have an assembly talking about, you know, separation of church and state, free speech, prayer, the politicization, you know, you know, the politics that have, that have invaded virtually every aspect of our lives, including, including our various religious and spiritual, you know, places of worship, and that would be a productive conversation. So, what I’d like to really see is a conversation about all of this, and not just a proclamation. And what do you think? You think they would accept that?

Khadijah 23:43

I don’t know if they’d accept it or not, but I think these are really great ideas that we should definitely explore with the school. And I think that they would more than likely see where you’re coming from. I think it’s a great idea the same as way, the same way that I do,

Gene 23:57

And since I’m suspended, maybe I can write. Maybe I can write something about this, you know, as an essay, you know, like for, for English, or for, for social studies, or, or just, you know.

Khadijah 24:15

Or you could just write for yourself as a form of expression to get it out, to get it out in the open, and decide what you want to do with it later. Yeah, good talk. Good talk.

Gene 24:28

So, so what do you think? How did we do? Khadijah, what now that we can break out of our roles?

Khadijah 24:36

I think we got off to a little bit of a rocky start. We were both really passionate about what we wanted to say and what we thought was the right kind of side to fall down on, I think, as we talked and as we began to like let our emotions come down, we could hear each other and we could appreciate where one another was coming from, and it allowed me, as a parent, to be. Able to, kind of put myself in your shoes, to be able to support you in the way that I think is important for parents to be able to support kids and their development of kind of autonomy and independence, and, you know, exercising their voice, but we want them to do it in a way that’s thoughtful and civilized. What do you think?

Gene 25:18

Well, I think, I think that’s true, and I think that, you know, I was trying to become as we were talking, and I could really reflect on what the issues were and where I was coming from, because you gave me the space as a parent to kind of like express myself. It became more clear to me where I was coming from, and my outrage at how religion and politics and beliefs and freedom of speech have all gotten so kind of like enmeshed and mixed up, you know, and it just flared my own emotional state. So I think, I think what occurred to me as we were role playing, is the importance of kind of a well-paced conversation, rather than talking at each other, helping each other reflect on what our own issues are and what the other person’s issues might be like, I could be thinking about what that the school actually had the right intentions, even though They triggered me by using the word prayer, yeah, and

Khadijah 26:43

I think that’s important. And so, we came to a place of kind of essentially agreement in the end. But it’s also important to remember that doesn’t always happen that way, and if we can’t get to a place where we agree, it’s okay to put it aside. Because, like you’ve said, and I’ve said, it doesn’t conflict resolution doesn’t mean that all disagreements are resolved in the same way, or that we kind of or that they even have happen instantaneously, like it often is multiple conversations over a period of time and space. So with that being said, in the end, we may still be on different pages of a same book, or even in a completely different book, but it’s important for us to be able to really take the time, slow down, hear each other, so that we can appreciate the different points of view, so that we can accept, you know, the different points of view and the different place that people are coming from it, and really be in a place that we can tolerate these differences, so that we can still support each other despite all of those things, yeah.

Gene 27:42

Well, I think, you know, I think we did we did okay, you know. And I think these are the these. These are the kinds of examples just for the listening audience that you as parents and caregivers, and you as as teens and young adults can be thinking about in terms of how you have civilized conversations and try to affect conflict resolution, you know, with your parents, friends, teachers and others you know in your life. So

Khadijah 28:20

So, I think it’d be like quite appropriate to kind of leave the listeners with this thought about, you know, in the context of dealing with conflict, for them to think about, what have they dealt with recently that has been a conflict, or and how they resolved it? Or, you know, what conflict exists in their life or in the world that they’d like to see resolved like I think this is a really helpful exercise to think about, to be reflective about these things.

Gene 28:50

So, what conflict in your life? Khadijah, would you like to see resolved at this point?

Khadijah 28:58

Oh, why don’t you go first gene? Let me think about it. There’s so many things to choose from. Let me think about what would be helpful to talk about on live, on the air.

Gene 29:12

Well, I guess what’s top one on my mind right now is really the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is it’s such a complicated situation, but, you know, it just seems like, I don’t know, for me, it’s, It’s, it’s just a no brainer that, you know, we should, I mean, it’s been going on for so long and yet, you know, I just, I just really hope that this situation can, can be resolved. You know. So, in an amicable way, amicable way, so that the Israelis and the Palestinians and all the nations in the Middle East can kind of learn to kind of, you know, peacefully coexist. I mean, I don’t think, I think given the history and given so much that’s going on over, over so many years, just as conflict resolution, I don’t think everyone’s going to kind of like put their arms around each other and sing Kumbaya on the one hand, but on the other hand, I do think that, you know, peaceful coexistence and with mutual respect, is really the only option, and I really would hope for, for that

Khadijah 30:43

My turn again?

Gene 30:45

It’s your turn, I went first.

Khadijah 30:48

I guess the one thing that that really bothers me in terms, and I don’t know if this conflict resolution, but the idea that we can’t have truthful charged conversations are okay, but truthful conversations about what’s going on in politics. So, you know, right, left, center at the end of the day. You know, I think what would really what I really struggle with is all of the misinformation, disinformation and just blatant kind of falsehoods. And how can we get to a place to be able to have these conversations with transparency and still be able to be respectful of one another’s viewpoints? So, I don’t know if that is a conflict that can be resolved,

[OUTRO MUSIC BEGINS]

but that is one of the things that I struggle most about watching so much that’s based people based in their facts, or basing their decisions, or basing their choices on information that has been blatantly misrepresented.

Gene 31:56

Well, who said it? The truth will set you free. Well, I agree so, and for those of you at home, if you’d like what you’ve heard today, consider leaving us a review. We hope, as always, that our conversation will help you have yours. I’m Gene Beresin

Khadijah 32:20

and I’m Khadijah Booth Watkins until next time.

[OUTRO MUSIC ENDS]

Episode music by Gene Beresin

Episode produced by Spenser Egnatz